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[Dysphagia] I am fed up
I also have learned a lot from Irene's posts.
I also think she comes across as having disrespect for the SLP profession.
I hope that's not her intent, but that's the way she comes across.
Rob Melchionna MS CCC-SLP
>From: "Lawrence Grall" <lhgrall at hotmail.com>
>To: lobsterpam at aol.com, dysphagia at b9.com
>Subject: Re: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:54:20 +0000
>
>As someone who has followed the list serve for several years I have
>witnessed several seasons of turbulence and controversey, often culminating
>in perceived and often overt disrespect and hostility. I suspect this will
>not be the last time and as always, we will learn from this and go on.
>Irene has often been accused of "talking down" or appearing condescending
>to those on the listserve (especially new participants who are not familiar
>with her direct responses) and I really appreciated Pam's perspective of
>her interactions with Irene. Perhaps some of Irene's tone is simply based
>on sheer frustration, and the passion she possesses for this insidious
>field of dysphagia....having to convey and address over and over the basic
>principles and foundations necessary to even broach this field...and
>despite the redundancy of questions from new listservers, she continues to
>do it. I submit that it is Irene who has led the way in illuminating what
>information is really out there and most importantlly what is not...and in
>essence played a (if not "the") leading role in changing the whole paradigm
>of clinical assessment and perspective; pulling many of us out of a micro
>focused "MBS" view and into a comprehensive multidisciplinary approach
>where encompassing all approriate areas of medical knowledge is paramount.
>I have often emailed Irene personally for specific information and I can
>testify there has not been one instance where she has not provided me her
>complete attention and service to locating the information I request and
>may need in support of my patient's welfare.
>
>And although I have witnessed many attacks on Irene's character, it is not
>very often where I witness any correspondence on the listserve directly
>thanking her for the time, effort, and dedication to this listserve. I
>have experienced times where she has been insulted to the point of
>withdrawing; and trust me her insight and experience has been overtly and
>greatly missed. Fortunately she has always come back.
>
>So with that, I (and I know there are a great many others) want to publicly
>and personally thank you Irene!...thank you for your dedication, your
>perseverence, and sheer passion to helping those with dysphagia...as well
>as those who treat it. I myself think you have a very purposeful and
>rewarding life!
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Lawrence Grall
>
>
>
>>From: lobsterpam at aol.com
>>To: EThompson at mountnittany.org
>>CC: dysphagia at b9.com
>>Subject: Re: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:12:44 -0500
>>
>>
>> I expect that the example of the graduate student who was woefully
>>prepared for a medically based internship is repeated in many settings
>>across the country. It is a situation we do our best to avoid. I'd be
>>willing to bet that it's a big reason some SLPs don't want to take
>>students. Although in our idealism we like to think that "someone did this
>>for you, so you should be willing to do it for them," the reality is that
>>a less-than-prepared student can be more work than benefit. They can
>>require SO much time and energy that your own productivity suffers more
>>than the department is able to absorb. After all, health care is a
>>business.
>>
>> Our second years (they'll graduate in May) started their second half
>>placements this week, a week which always makes me a bit nervous, because
>>it is their medical assignment. I hope I did my job well enough so that
>>our SLP supervisors, whom we need and value SO much, can still do theirs.
>>We want the experience with our students to be a benefit, not a burden.
>>That's the goal... time always will be the best judge of how we did.
>>
>> And yes, Elana, I'll be at PSHA. Come to "Scary Videos" on Friday!
>>
>> Pam Smith
>> Bloomsburg University
>> Bloomsburg, PA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EThompson at mountnittany.org
>> To: lobsterpam at aol.com; dysphagia at b9.com
>> Sent: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:43 AM
>> Subject: RE: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>>
>> That is very well said, Pam, and is the culmination of many things I
>>was
>>considering writing in my own response. (Now, I don't need to!!)
>>I will say this, though....
>>Last fall I had a graduate student, supposedly a semester away from
>>graduation,
>>who came to do a 12-week internship with me in an adult acute care
>>hospital.
>>She had had NO practical adult eval or therapy experience at her school
>>and was
>>expecting to spend just 12 weeks with me and gain independence in the
>>skills
>>required of an acute care SLP. Her grade was based on the level of
>>independence
>>she achieved during the internship. She failed.
>>In ALL health care settings, the SLP really should be proficient in ALL
>>areas
>>Pam mentioned prior to independently seeing patients and grad schools
>>should be
>>teaching it to us just like it is taught to an RN, PA-C, or CRNP. We are
>>involved with patients on that level. You cannot understand swallowing,
>>cognition, and general recovery processes without understanding those lab
>>values, etc. I never really understood all of that until the past 5
>>years, but
>>since then I have been trying very hard to gain proficiency in all those
>>areas.
>>
>>SLP's might not like to hear it, but in health care settings, we are
>>medical
>>professionals, not just rehab professionals. That is probably why it is
>>alarming to some people that an SLP already in those settings would need
>>an
>>introductory level course. However, if you need them, take them and I
>>hope they
>>are great!
>>
>>In Pam's words: Here's to getting the knowledge base, using your
>>inquisitive
>>open mind, accessing information, and thickening your skin!!
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Elana Thompson, MS,CCC-SLP
>>
>>See you at PSHA, Pam?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: dysphagia-bounces at b9.com [mailto:dysphagia-bounces at b9.com]On
>>Behalf Of lobsterpam at aol.com
>>Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:33 AM
>>To: dysphagia at b9.com
>>Subject: Re: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>>
>>
>> This isn't directed at the 'introductory course' topic specifically,
>>but is a
>>more global comment simply offered for consideration. My thoughts on the
>>introductory course is that if someone needs the training, go get it. But
>>recognize the larger less personal point that dysphagia education in our
>>profession in general needs work. Those of us in universities know that
>>and are
>>we working hard to improve it. The ASHA Knowledge and Skills documents
>>speak for
>>themselves, and Division 13 has many excellent resources available for
>>members.
>>
>> That said, I think it's very unhealthy for professionals - or members of
>>a
>>professional discussion lists - to stop questioning the practices of the
>>profession. NO profession improves unless it is constantly examining
>>itself. The
>>whole concept of evidence based practice requires continual objective
>>evaluation
>>of the evidence supposedly supporting what we do. If list serve
>>participants
>>only wish to support each other with "atta boy!" comments, no one grows as
>>a
>>professional. Would we rather have an attorney ask some of the questions
>>that
>>are asked here? How do you feel when a smart and savvy family member
>>questions
>>what you are doing? Or when a physician won't order your services? In the
>>litigious society in which we find ourselves, it's best we get used to
>>people
>>asking us the "why" questions about our field, and be prepared to state
>>objectively and from an evidence base - not defensively - why we are doing
>>what
>>we are doing.
>>
>> The management of patients with dysphagia is a multidisciplinary field,
>>and any
>>SLP who believes he or she can do it himself/herself has a lot of reading
>>to do
>>and additional academic degrees to obtain. A discussion list that welcomes
>>the
>>contributions of other professionals only helps us to appreciate what
>>these
>>other professionals know. If we are intimidated by that, nothing is gained
>>by
>>telling these people to get out of our sandbox. Have the people who find
>>themselves angry ever located and read the information Irene has posted? A
>>number of years ago I argued openly on this list with Irene, and her tone
>>was
>>directed right at me, and of course I didn't appreciate it. Then I finally
>>read
>>the literature that was posted (Irene was the first one who I had ever
>>heard of
>>mentioning the contribution of reflux or oral secretions to pneumonia, and
>>I'd
>>been practicing for close to 10 years at that point.)
>>
>> Individuals have their own manner of conveying their thoughts; some
>>people just
>>don't sugarcoat things. The written word doesn't provide the complete
>>pragmatic.
>>That's a limitation of email communication and it needs to be accepted if
>>one is
>>going to use this medium. Sure, people could be nicer, but I remember a
>>colleague who could be nicer, too. It's a shame if people choose not to
>>interact
>>because of personality differences. Wasn't it Eleanor Roosevelt who said
>>no one
>>can make you feel inferior without your consent? Anyway, eventually I
>>realized
>>that my angst wasn't really about Irene. It was easy to blame this person
>>who
>>was faceless and only showed up in my email inbox with abstracts that
>>showed she
>>had a lot of information at her fingertips that I didn't have, and who
>>wrote
>>things in a way that made me realize that I was missing some very basic
>>information that I SHOULD know. There are and were choices here - to get
>>angry
>>and defensive, or to suck it up and learn thing!
>> s. My issues were that I knew practically nothing about lab values,
>>dietary
>>requirements, respiratory physiology or infectious diseases, and yet here
>>I was
>>working with patients with these very problems. My issues were coming to
>>terms
>>with the fact that some of the interventions I had been doing for years
>>had the
>>potential to do as much harm as the underlying problem I was trying to
>>help.
>>
>> Whenever students ask me about why practices are so inconsistent, and
>>why they
>>must continue to read research and understand evidence when they are
>>finished
>>with school, I tell them that not so many hundred years ago, doctors used
>>to
>>bleed people to cure them of disease, and that's what killed George
>>Washington.
>>Someone questioned the practice, and someone had to be the first to
>>suggest that
>>maybe bloodletting wasn't the best way to go.
>>
>> Working in health care requires a knowledge base, an inquisitive open
>>mind,
>>access to information, and a thick skin.
>>
>> Pam Smith, Ph.D.
>> Bloomsburg University
>> Bloomsburg, PA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cohoe at uci.net
>> To: vickycox at yahoo.ca; dysphagia at b9.com
>> Sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>>
>> I vote for a kindler, gentler listserve as well. Can we stop wit the
>>questioning of others and simply be supportive? If we fear posting for
>>the
>>ridicule of one member we allow her to win. Let's ask those beginner
>>questions and let's advertise those courses. This listserve is for SLP's;
>>let's take it back.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: dysphagia-bounces at b9.com [mailto:dysphagia-bounces at b9.com] On Behalf
>>Of Vicky Cox
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:42 PM
>>To: dysphagia at b9.com
>>Subject: [Dysphagia] I am fed up
>>
>>Hello all,
>>
>> I am an SLP and proud to say that I am attending "beginner" workshops
>>even
>>though I have been practising for a long time. I suppose I never think I
>>am
>>a perfect SLP, and guess what, I may even learn something from the new
>>grads, who as someone put it, should already know everything form their
>>masters program.
>>
>> I posted a question a few years back when I was a new grad, and a
>>particular person posted a reply and made me look like a total idiot (the
>>same person who normally does this). I feel saddened to say that I have
>>been
>>afraid of posting since then. But reading all of these replies, I am glad
>>that others can see how toxic this list serve can be.
>>
>> Its a shame really, because there are some really great SLPs who post
>>here
>>(all in fact), and I am sorry I had such a bad experience in the past.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vicky
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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